HBuGUI

Issues and Discussions related to Harbour

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PeteWG
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Re: HBuGUI

Post by PeteWG » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 am

Roberto Lopez wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:18 pm
HMG is a fork of MiniGUI, they are very very very similar. By the other hand, HWGUI is a very different thing.
Now I'm a little bit shocked! All these years I used to consider the HMG as the "official" project
and the MiniGUI (extended) a fork of it! Since when this relation has turned upside-down ? :mrgreen:

Seriously though, HWGUI was/is an elegant piece of software, yet it didn't succeed
to get widely adopted by Harbour users.
Unfortunately, it's not the first time nor HWGUI is the only case where a really good
software product doesn't "sell" as good as it should, at least compared to competition. :|

regards,
Pete

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Post by Anand » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:21 am

The success of a product i.e. user acceptance solely depends on ease of use. This is from my experience.

I found MiniGUI more useful than HMG (official) solely due to extensive sample codes, which I can dig to solve my requirements. Not everyone is expert and need guide when stuck development.

I use many language platform and many times though I know what I need to do, I fend for the code syntax for it in the platform I am using.
Samples helps a lot. And I thank Grigory for the extra work he has done for it in MiniGUI.

Regards,

Anand
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:27 pm

PeteWG wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 am
Roberto Lopez wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:18 pm
HMG is a fork of MiniGUI, they are very very very similar. By the other hand, HWGUI is a very different thing.
Now I'm a little bit shocked! All these years I used to consider the HMG as the "official" project
and the MiniGUI (extended) a fork of it! Since when this relation has turned upside-down ? :mrgreen:
I must admit that it was a "lazy" description :D

Well... for those that does not know the history: I've created MiniGUI library on February 2002 and I was the main responsible of the project for nearly three years.

At some point in 2004 I've faced a very hard (I mean really hard) personal problem and I've was
away from the project for some months.

When I was ready to continue, I've noticed that main project contributors, released an alternative library version, including code that (IMHO) did not met certain design rules that I've established. This release included code that I've previously rejected (explaining to their authors, the reasons).

Because this, I felt very disappointed and after thinking a lot about that, I've decided to create a new project called HMG. It started including the last 'official' MiniGUI library (with some additions), Harbour compiler and MingW compiler, becoming this way, a full development system.

Then, the MiniGUI contributors not sharing my vision of the project, started "HMG Extended", strange name decision ;) ).

The bottom line is: HMG and HMG Extended, started nearly with the same code, and even today (after all these years) still being very very similar things.

Despite the criteria differences, I feel a strong respect for Grigory (a true genius). I'll be always grateful to him for all the support in the early years and for his continued work, keeping HMG (in any flavor) alive.
PeteWG wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 am
Seriously though, HWGUI was/is an elegant piece of software, yet it didn't succeed
to get widely adopted by Harbour users.
Unfortunately, it's not the first time nor HWGUI is the only case where a really good
software product doesn't "sell" as good as it should, at least compared to competition. :|
True. I've just pointing, that the Alexander Kresin approach, makes HWGUI more 'Harbour official' alike.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Pcmodula
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Post by Pcmodula » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:20 pm

Sir,
it's not clear what's wrong in minigui extended alias hmg extended, because now I just see a lot of confusion.
I'm using a less complete version of HMG than Minigui extended, or we're facing a copyright infringement
by the extended, or else (it would seem that HWGUI is the best ...) but let's not forget the other OOHG, Marinas etc.
I am not only one bit confused, but more!
Master, please clarify the matter better, what should I avoid, and why HMG 4 is stuck while Minigui
extended continues to grow.
I think that answering these questions is what everyone expects

With best regards.

Pcmodula

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Post by EduardoLuis » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:40 pm

Hi Friends:

Pcmodula.- Just for your question, there is nothing illegal or that violates copyrights.-
HMG, the original one, created by Roberto Lopez, is the use most of members of this forum.-
Minigui Extended - as Roberto said - is very very similar to HMG he creates.-
I don't think HWGUI "is the best", i respect any opinion, but been a HMG user since last 7 years, i've develope lots of app that works fine, no crashes, no issues.-
Everything is debatable, but at the end, only matters that an app (develope with any language) works.-
I've test OOHG and Marinas, and in both cases you get good languages, but non of them are so simple and familiar as HMG.-
In the last 5 years lots of HMG friendship have published extraordinary routines that helps other HMG developers; in my case i've collect hundreds of them and modify them and implement those in my apps.- That's the way everything goes forward.-
Most of HMG members live from the app they have develope, this means HMG WORKS.-
There are lots of software solutions, all not freeware; so if somebody needs more that what HMG gives free, must pay for it.-
Perhaps most want to get with the same power that provides other libraries or software not freeware.- I think that is a kimera.- Most want to get a grid that works in the same way of an excel sheet o with the functionality of (for example BCG GUI libraries); with HMG that's not possible if what anybody wants is the same result, but going in witty way it's possible the emulation.-
The secret is what can i do with HMG.- My answer if: the only limit is your imagination.-
There is always an alternative to emulate what you can do with other developement software; never will be the same, but it will be similar.-
Somebody wrote few month ago that HMG will die or dissapear in the near future.- Meanwhile one member could develope any app that gives solutions to one client, HMG will survive along the time.-
With regards.
Eduardo

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Post by Anand » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:44 am

Pcmodula wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:20 pm
Master, please clarify the matter better, what should I avoid, and why HMG 4 is stuck while Minigui
extended continues to grow.
I think that answering these questions is what everyone expects
I think Eduardo reply seals the above query that HMG is great for Clipper users even for making commercial applications. And I too agree with it, as I make applications for living. So no matter which version we use, it is matter of self choice, HMG Official of HMG MiniGUI Extended, both fulfills our need for making professional applications. I have made more than 10 big applications and continuing. Mostly I have got help from Forum members here and also from sample codes of MiniGUI Samples folder, which is very extensive, IMHO.

Regards,

Anand
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Post by Roberto Lopez » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:11 pm

Pcmodula wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:20 pm
Sir,
it's not clear what's wrong in minigui extended alias hmg extended, because now I just see a lot of confusion.
I'm using a less complete version of HMG than Minigui extended, or we're facing a copyright infringement
by the extended, or else (it would seem that HWGUI is the best ...) but let's not forget the other OOHG, Marinas etc.
I am not only one bit confused, but more!
Master, please clarify the matter better, what should I avoid, and why HMG 4 is stuck while Minigui
extended continues to grow.
I think that answering these questions is what everyone expects

With best regards.

Pcmodula
1. HMG, HMG Extended and OOHG, started from the open source MiniGUI library. They are similar in many ways, but with different approaches to certain aspects, according the vision of their authors/maintainers. This is how open source works and I'm happy with that. I'm really proud that a small experimental library (like original MiniGUI was) be the base for three great development tools.

2. I was in charge of the projects (MiniGUI and later HMG) from 2002 to 2011. Then I was not able to continue because I have not enough time anymore. I've communicated that to the community when I've made the decision.

3. The prior applies to HMG4 too. It is open source, and anybody interested can continue it.

This is how open source works. Everybody contributes the way they can, the time they can: with core code, examples, bug report, fixes, suggestion or simply helping other users and it's ok.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Post by Roberto Lopez » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:42 pm

EduardoLuis wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:40 pm
Somebody wrote few month ago that HMG will die or dissapear in the near future.- Meanwhile one member could develope any app that gives solutions to one client, HMG will survive along the time.-
As we know, the development is shifting to web technologies and native mobile apps.

During the last year, about 50% of my developments are based on JMG, providing responsive apps that works inside a web browser in any platform (even Windows).

More and more people wants to do more things from their phones or any Internet connected PC browser. This is more noticeable on people under 30/40 years old. The concept of Windows-only native application is vanishing. Most Windows/desktop only solutions are loosing market share cause this.

Unfortunately there was no interest in the HMG community on JMG and HMGSCRIPT projects that I've envisioned as HMG continuations in this new world.
Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Post by Roberto Lopez » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:25 pm

Roberto Lopez wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:42 pm
As we know, the development is shifting to web technologies and native mobile apps.
But... after writing this, I've was curious about Harbour and its main GUIs distributions popularity right now, so, I've remembered that SourceForge offers public download statistics.

I know that most of these projects has alternative download channels (even HMG) so, the following numbers should be considered in such context.

Numbers show weekly downloads and are very impressive: More than 300 (total for all projects). Considering the existence of alternative download channels, this number surely is a lot greater.

Harbour (in all of its forms) is still very alive. I hope that someone can finally find the way to drive the xBase spirit to web/mobile development.

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Regards/Saludos,

Roberto


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Post by apais » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:37 pm

mod-harbour is doing so

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